From: int907a@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au Official WW Paradox answer: As was suggested by others, vampires and werewolves continue to exist (with the powers they have and all) because they are entities branded deep into the human psyche by centuries (indeed, millenia) of folklore, legend, myth, and superstitious belief. Kindred and Garou (and ghosts) are so much a part of That Which We Call Man (and Woman), that they are literally part of the static reality. Woven right into the Tapestry. It's just that humans have been trained not to see them for what they are. In the case of werewolves, the Veil is necessary because it is the only means by which humans can accept that which their subconscious usually keeps buried. Vampires get "explained away" as creatures of fantasy, "only in the movies," but a dark, shadowy realm of the human spirit knows otherwise. There is a reason that humans fear the dark, though most can't put their finger right on it. The truth lies hidden deep within the darkest regions of our soul. No amount of rationality will drive this away. Even in a clockwork universe, vampires will exist in some form that is acceptable to the Sleeper masses. I'm also told that vampires and Garou do not shape reality by sheer force of will like mages. In effect, they have learned to do what static reality (albeit, the dark hidden side to it that most humans can't consciously acknowledge or cope with; if they could, they'd be Awakened I imagine) allows them to do. Disciplines and Gifts are abilities "granted" by the Sleeper population to the "creatures of the night." Phil said, "Vampires can change into bats without attracting Paradox because the human psyche 'knows' vampires can do this." This is not a technically satisfying explanation because not all cultures recognized bat-form as part of their vampire folklore (if indeed they had any vampire folklore at all). However, I think you get the overall idea. I think specific implementations (i.e., detailed explanations) are left for Storytellers to figure out for themselves. For myself, I think I'm going to come up with an explanation for how vampires, werewolves, ghosts, and faeries are "teflon coated" when it comes to Paradox. Many of the things they do are vulgar twists of reality, and I like the image of Paradox screaming down upon the hapless lick only to bounce off confused and frustrated. :-) John R. Cooper Internet: jcooper@world.std.com Vivid Technologies Inc. jc@vivitech.com Waltham, MA 02154 GEnie: J.COOPER22